In the Beginning

The Catholic Answers I Knew

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I’VE TOLD THIS STORY more times than I can count, and it never gets old. What happened changed my life in ways I couldn’t have imagined.

I first crossed paths with Karl Keating in early 1987 after reading a short, unremarkable notice in our diocesan newspaper about a public debate on the papacy between Catholic attorney Karl Keating and one Bill Jackson, a traveling Baptist preacher whose stated mission was to convert Catholics to “Biblical Christianity.” The article didn’t just catch my eye; it jolted me awake.

I had long been interested in apologetics, studying it informally in my spare time, purely as a hobby, while holding down a full-time job in sales and raising a young, rapidly expanding family. For years, I thought I was alone in that pursuit. Seeing someone else, not just a fellow Catholic, but someone who had launched a public effort to respond to the Church’s critics, as Karl had, flipped a switch in me I didn’t know existed.

I first crossed paths with Karl Keating in early 1987 after reading a short, unremarkable notice in our diocesan newspaper about a public debate on the papacy between Catholic attorney Karl Keating and one Bill Jackson, a traveling Baptist preacher whose stated mission was to convert Catholics to “Biblical Christianity.” The article didn’t just catch my eye; it jolted me awake.

I had long been interested in apologetics, studying it informally in my spare time, purely as a hobby, while holding down a full-time job in sales and raising a young, rapidly expanding family. For years, I thought I was alone in that pursuit. Seeing someone else, not just a fellow Catholic, but someone who had launched a public effort to respond to the Church’s critics, as Karl had, flipped a switch in me I didn’t know existed.

Happily surprised, I put the newspaper down and decided to try to call him. The article didn’t include contact information, and I doubted I’d find anything, but on a whim, I called directory assistance. To my surprise, I got a phone number for Catholic Answers.

It was after 9 p.m., so I assumed I’d just leave a message, but someone answered after just a couple of rings.

“Hello, Catholic Answers.”

What? I thought to myself, astonished that someone would answer the phone at such a late hour. Caught off guard, I said, “Oh . . . um . . . hello. I know it’s after hours, but I wanted to leave a message for [glancing at the article] uh, Karl Keating.”

“This is Karl Keating,” the voice replied.

That unexpected moment led to what seemed like an hour-long conversation that launched a new friendship. We had different backgrounds, different temperaments, and different life experiences, but clearly we shared a deep affinity for defending the Faith, something I had never discovered in another person before.

I was impressed by the work Karl had already been doing for several years: writing tracts, producing a monthly Catholic Answers newsletter, engaging in public debates—all of it single-handedly.

Like the proverbial acorn growing into an oak tree, Karl’s “Catholic Answers” newsletter started small but reached great heights as time went on. The inaugural issue was dated August 1986. I know this because after our call, he followed up by sending me a passel of Catholic Answers’ materials, including several tri-fold tracts on biblical topics he had composed, a few cassette tapes of his debates, and half-a-dozen back issues of the newsletter; four pages, “subscriptions $10 per year prepaid.”

Each edition was no-frills but packed with great content I found riveting, such as the first issue’s “The Great Debate” cover story about Karl’s surreal debate at Calvary Baptist Church in San Diego with ex-Carmelite priest turned professional Protestant anti-Catholic preacher Bart Brewer.

I devoured everything in that care package. The materials fed a hunger in me that had long gone unnamed. They were a deep draught of oxygen after years of short, shallow breaths surviving on the sparse fare of apologetics resources I had previously found, here and there.

It wasn’t long before we were back on the phone again, and again, through the balance of 1987, trading ideas, comparing notes, and mainly Karl generously sharing more about his apologetics work. He was accomplishing a lot in his spare time.

Fast forward to January 1988. After months of prayer and reflection, I had come to believe that God was calling me to something new. What, exactly, I couldn’t tell. But the desire to leave my sales career and serve God more directly had taken root. Each day that month, I prayed the Rosary with this intention. I spent every lunch hour kneeling before the Blessed Sacrament at a parish near my office, asking the Lord to show me what He wanted me to do with my life.

Eventually, I took a leap of faith: I resigned from my job without knowing what was next.

The very next day, Saturday, Karl called. I mentioned that I was discerning a new direction and asked him to pray for me.

“I’ll definitely pray,” he said. “But I can do more than that. I’ve decided to close my law practice and turn Catholic Answers into a full-time operation. Why don’t you come work with me? Let’s build something big.”

I answered immediately: “No, thanks.”

At the time, it never occurred to me that apologetics could be a career, let alone a way to support my family. I had never even occurred to me to work in that field (heretofore, apologetics wasn’t a field at all!). I was certain that whatever God had in mind, it couldn’t possibly involve apologetics.

But Karl didn’t let it go. He pressed the idea again.

We talked it through for maybe another twenty minutes, and by the end of the call, I had agreed—reluctantly, skeptically—to give it a try. As Karl reminded me, what did I have to lose?

That phone call changed my life.

Months later, looking back, I realized that my prayers had been answered. I had been begging God to show me what He wanted from me, and He had done so, very plainly. Dropped right into my lap, though I had just been too blind to recognize it right away. The call to work in the field of apologetics had come. I just hadn’t recognized it as an answer at first.

In Catholic Answers’ earliest phase as a full-time apostolate, there was plenty to do, though very little of it resembled the work the apostolate would become known for. There was no Catholic Answers Live radio show (that was still many years off, and not even on our radar), no conferences or seminars, no books (other than some venerable early 20^th-century classics such as Radio Replies that we retailed), no cassette tapes or CDs, let alone digital downloads, and no Catholic.com. In fact, as of early 1988, Karl’s landmark bestseller Catholicism and Fundamentalism hadn’t yet come off the presses at Ignatius Press.

Fun fact: The “Our Needs” section on the back page of the first (1986) Catholic Answers newsletter features a list of prayer intentions, including: “For the successful completion and publication of Karl Keating’s book, the working title of which is Answering Fundamentalism.” The requested prayers certainly worked. In the spring of 1988, Ignatius Press published Catholicism and Fundamentalism: The Attack on “Romanism” by “Bible Christians — a blockbuster in the then miniscule but now vast genre of apologetics works. Nearly forty years on, it continues to sell steadily and remarkably well.

That May, several dozen cases of the book finally arrived, and we scrambled to ship them out to the hundreds of subscribers who had pre-ordered copies. But in the months leading up to that day, Karl, Charlie, and I—along with a few dedicated local volunteers—had our hands full just packing and shipping tracts and newsletters, answering an ever-growing stream of correspondence, and sketching out ideas for future projects.

We had no clue, no idea how big Catholic Answers was going to become, how wide its reach would stretch, or how many souls it would help guide home to the Catholic Church. I’m staggered by the sheer scale of what Catholic Answers has become. From those early days with a dozen tracts, a newsletter, and not much else to the vast and important apostolate it has risen to become. With great satisfaction I can say, “I was there,” even if only for the first eight years. The really big developments came later. But I’m content knowing I had a role in getting it off the ground. It was a little like being Orville to Karl’s Wilbur or maybe, given the height difference, Robin to his Batman. I was there when, as it were, we formed and poured the concrete foundation upon which so much excellent apologetics work Catholic Answers went on to build.

About a year later, Karl let me know we’d soon be interviewing a prospective new team member: a young convert from Protestantism named Mark Brumley living in St. Louis. Karl had invited him to join the staff as a writer and speaker, doing work like mine (e.g., writing articles for the newsletter, writing new tracts, and other apologetics materials). I discovered that Mark and I were nearly the same age—both just shy of 29—with no idea how our paths, which briefly converged at Catholic Answers, would eventually branch into separate if related missions.

Today, Mark serves as president of Ignatius Press, one of the world’s most respected Catholic publishing houses. Though his time at Catholic Answers lasted only about two years, his vital contributions helped shape the structural framework and direction of the apostolate and sent it, and all of us, forward into the twenty-first century.

One vivid memory of that time is from the spring of 1989. I found myself working through a stack of subscriber names. These were people who had been gifted Catholic Answers newsletter subscriptions but weren’t receiving them. My job was to call each one and confirm their mailing address. Not exactly glamorous work, but with only a handful of us on staff, we wore lots of different hats.

About halfway through the pile, I dialed a number in the 815 area code (Joliet, Illinois).

“Hello?” a man answered.

“Uh, hi. This is Patrick Madrid from Catholic Answers. I’m calling for a Mr. Scott Hahn?”

“Yes, this is Scott Hahn.”

“Well, Scott, a friend of yours purchased a gift subscription to our newsletter for you, and it looks like you haven’t received it yet. I’m just confirming if we have your correct mailing address.”

“No, I haven’t gotten it, but it sounds interesting,” Scott said. “‘Catholic Answers’? Tell me more.”

So I did. “We’re a Catholic apologetics organization that helps Catholics respond to questions and challenges from Protestants, Mormons, Jehovah’s Witnesses . . .” I still chuckle at the thought that I was explaining apologetics to a newly Catholic Scott Hahn!

“Oh really?” he exclaimed. “Now I’m interested. I used to be a Protestant minister. I converted to the Catholic Church three years ago!”

Now I was interested.

We ended up talking for two hours. Scott walked me through his powerful and unexpected journey from a zealous anti-Catholic evangelical Protestant to becoming a deeply convicted convert to the Catholic Church. It was a truly amazing journey of conversion that he described, an odyssey the likes of which I (and eventually countless millions of others) had never heard before. By the end of the conversation, I was floored.

Karl happened to walk by my desk. I flagged him down.

“Karl! You have to talk to this guy. His name is Scott Hahn. Former Protestant minister. He’s a convert to the Church. His story is incredible!”

Karl barely glanced over. “I’m busy.”

“No, really. You need to talk to him.”

He sighed, rolled his eyes, and walked to his office to pick up his extension. I made the introductions: “Karl Keating, meet Scott Hahn. Scott, meet Karl.” Then I hung up.

Two hours later, Karl emerged from his office. His face said everything: Okay, you were right. This guy does have an amazing story!

We were both struck not only by the power and excitement of Scott’s story, but by his depth of knowledge, charm, and the tantalizing potential we saw for future collaboration with him. Neither of us could have imagined then what an immense influence Scott would eventually have on the Church in America. But we knew we had just met a kindred spirit, someone who didn’t just understand what we were doing at Catholic Answers, but who could do it in ways we hadn’t yet imagined.

A couple months later, I walked into Karl’s office with an idea.

“I’ve been thinking about Scott’s background. What if we held a seminar out here in So Cal and had him tell his conversion story? We could record it and sell the tapes.”

Karl nodded. “What parish could we get on short notice?”

“How about mine? I’m sure my pastor would say yes.”

He did, though not without some hesitation. “Do you know him personally?” Fr. Louis Marx asked.

“Yes,” I said. “He’s rock solid. He has an incredible story. You’ll see.”

“Has he ever spoken publicly before?”

“Mmm, not that I’ve heard. But trust me, Father, he’ll be great.”

“Hmm. Well, he’d better not preach any theological error. If he does, I’m holding you responsible.”

We advertised the event as a Catholic Answers seminar, though neither Karl nor I would be speaking. The draw was meager an unknown former Protestant minister named Scott Hahn.

Only about 40 people showed up that night. No one in the room had ever heard of Scott. Neither, of course, had the wider Catholic world. But five minutes into his talk, my pastor turned around from his front-row seat, grinned at me, and gave me a hearty thumbs-up. He was riveted by Scott’s amazing and compelling conversion testimony.

Scott delivered a gripping, passionate, and deeply moving account of his conversion—rich with Scripture, theology, and personal drama. The talk was recorded and titled The Conversion of a Former Protestant Minister. It would go on to out-perform by far any other Catholic audio at the time, millions of copies, many through free distribution. “The Conversion of a Protestant Minister” audio of his talk that evening became a cornerstone of modern apologetics outreach and has opened countless hearts to Jesus Christ and the truth of the Catholic Faith.

I’ve met many converts since who point to that tape as the beginning of their journey home.

The talk Scott gave that evening before a small, unsuspecting audience at an obscure parish made a vast and enduring impact that still reverberates to this day. Courtesy of Catholic Answers.

Catholic Answers was always a bootstrap apostolate. While sales of books, tracts, and newsletters helped, they weren’t enough to keep us going financially. Which is why very early into my tenure, Karl had me join him in conducting parish seminars all over Southern California. We barnstormed continuously presenting apologetics seminars to avid audiences at parishes across Southern California. Catholic folk in those days were starving for solid, convincing biblical and historical Catholic answers to the challenges Protestants raised against the Church. They were enthusiastic and so were we. At first, our audiences were modest but once the word began to get out about the rising tide of Catholic apologetics info we specialized in, crowds soon grew to capacity, often 500 to 800 packed into a parish church or hall. It was new and exciting and by God’s grace, I am happy to report all these years later, did an immense amount of good for souls.

My ability to speak Spanish opened up new seminar opportunities, and we worked hard to build a backlog of speaking events. These seminars were our lifeblood, bringing in donations, boosting Catholic Answers’ visibility, and driving revenue from the books and other materials we sold at these talks.

At times, Karl and I were on the road two or three nights a week, speaking at parishes large and small. My wife, Nancy, was a saint (she still is), holding down the fort, managing the home, and raising our kids while I traveled. It wasn’t easy, but she understood the mission, and I’ll always be grateful for her graceful patience.

Not everyone in the crowds was friendly. Sometimes the front pew was packed with skeptical Protestants and their pastors or several Mormon missionaries. Occasionally, a fiery fundamentalist minister would leap up mid-talk, KJV Bible in hand, and rebuke us for “preaching error.” More than once, I paused my talk to engage in an impromptu debate with a Protestant minister before a large Catholic audience who were delighted to witness a Catholic defend the Faith confidently from the Bible. It gave them hope and encouragement and showed them how to speak the truth in love in their own way, when called upon to speak up.

Believe me, I’ve seen it all, and loved every minute of it.

As 1989 ended, Karl proposed converting our newsletter into a full-fledged magazine. We brainstormed titles, debating dozens of ideas. One I pushed for was Envoy, though Karl preferred This Rock, drawn from the Lord’s words to Simon Peter in Matthew 16.

This Rock launched in January 1990 with energy and clarity, packed with bold apologetics content and straightforward and unapologetic Catholic teaching unlike anything else in print at the time. It launched with a bang! Subscriptions began to soar, and at 48 pages compared to the eight-page newsletter format This Rock sprang from, we had much more room to maneuver in popularizing the lost art of apologetics for a new audience hungry for that information.

We were building something. Excited and pushing forward, we had no way of knowing just how significant and lasting it would be. Deo gratias.

Every day, I thank God for that opportunity. And I thank Karl for picking up the phone that night long ago and for inviting me into the adventure.

Copyright © 2025 Patrick Madrid. All rights reserved. All text, images, and other original content are the property of the author.

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