Patrick, I cannot imagine you as a pugnacious apologist. As a matter of fact, I have admired you over the years since I became acquainted with your program on Relevant Radio for your restraint, decorum, and for always remaining calm and respectful, especially when you were faced with heated and hostile callers who failed to show you the same courtesy. Now I have something else to admire and that is your humility in admitting how you at times were a tad "extra" in your approach and how you resolved to do better. I had the pleasure of talking with you on your program in 2024,
( I was the 40-year Jehovah's Witness from South Texas and shared my conversion story on air) and I will always remember the kindness you showed to me during that call. --Emily
Thank you, Emily. I really appreciate your kind and encouraging words. And I’m so glad you called the show to share details about your journey from the Watchtower into the Catholic Church. Welcome home! And thank you again.
Thanks for a great story. I actually watched that debate on the John Ankerberg show. It was my first introduction to Fr Mitch Pacwa. Later a friend and I discussed the debate. She was an evangelical, and of course we came to opposite conclusions about who won.
Thank you Patrick for your commentary and contributions over so many years. Your Surprised by Truth books are still in my library. While searching the TV offerings years ago, I came across the Jon Ankerberg show during which Dr. Walter Martin happened to be debating with Father Mitch Pacwa whom I had never heard of. I found Walter Martin to be cordial and knowledgeable, but thought Father Mitch had clearly won the debate. I was so impressed by his command of the scriptures without missing a beat. I subsequently began to watch him on EWTN. I was also glad to learn that he and Walter Martin had become good friends. I sincerely believe that Dr Martin believed that this Catholic priest really knew what he was taking about and was impressed by how well he could defend his Catholic faith.
What you call 'pugnacious style' can be a feature of an entertaining 'brand'. It seems to me that part of what makes this style 'fun' to which to listen, is something built into humans. The desire, expressed in countless dramas, fictional and actual, for justice. Justice for "the villain". This villain is never us. The villain is evil, and deserves to be punished. Pugnacious radio (and other) "journalism" inflicts this punishment on the villain(s). Jesus reveals there is more than one villain. Satan, the ultimate villain. Most of us are ok with Satan the villain being in Hell. He is not the only villain, and Jesus makes this clear. He reveals that some people will join Satan in Hell. This may be include any of us, as Jesus, and our entire Tradition, affirm. I might be the villain! "Judge not, lest ye be judged"- the sins for which I am happy to see others punished, including by pugnacious apologists, may be sins of which I am also guilty. My own sins may be worse! Jesus tries to inspire us to contrition for our own offenses. Those who go to Hell, may it please God that is few, go there for their own decisions, not those of any other villain. We are glad your style is less theatrically pugnacious. You usually maintain an admirable firmness in the face of hideous errors, and other ignorance. My preference, unmitigated by Jesus, is for the sarcasm I learned 'at my mother's knee'. Let us all pray for wiser ways to confront our own sins, and any villains we may encounter. Keep sarcasm handy, though. It is my intention to keep it in my quiver. May Saints and Holy Angels guide my use of it. Polished Arrow on Substack, Povera Voce on X.
Nice posting, Patrick. My first staff youth ministry role was 1980-1995 at St Callistus, married Donna Aug 15, 1981 and began the joy of 11 kids. I remember Fr Baird, the director of YM for the Diocese of Orange, put up with my insistence we youth leaders need to be prepared for the cults and be trained in understanding the other religions that compete for our teens. I got some good, and some lukewarm reactions from other YMs. The results over time speak for themselves
Like you, I consumed Dr Martin and read his Kingdom book and value your steadfast apologetics training Patrick that you share timelessly.
But one line I remember you've spoken eloquently: "apologetics is not about winning the arguments, but winning souls"
When I was called to appear on a Dennis Prager "afterschool" program, I accepted. It was on masturbation; the panel included two Planned parenthood workers, a young couple and myself, and I think I did an adequate job. Dennis gave me the moniker "preacher."
As I Peter 3:15 puts it, we always need to be ready, aware to give a reason for the hope that lies within. Trust the Holy Spirit will be there with the words, but preparation is important too.
Enjoy the day. Keep GOING in this Eucharistic Renaissance. Keep GROWING with Relevant
I am not surprised that Ankerberg would do something that nefarious. Seventh Day Adventists are often fanatic anti-Catholics and have no problems with duplicity. The Mormons were irked by Martin and attacked him even after his death. I still get combative, but usually only with those who are that way with me. Subtlety can be fun too. A guy lived across from a JW Kingdom Hall and was annoyed by his constant visitors. I told him to put a big statue of Mary on his lawn right where their driveway came out, so they would see her every time they left their service. He loved the idea and got one the next day.
The Bible Answer Man was my daily go to radio program for many years. Also read the Kingdom of the Cults which equipped me as a protestant in conversations I had with visiting JWs.
Stories about non Catholics who are respectful towards Catholicism, especially those who are moving deliberately towards Catholicism, then die suddenly, intrigue me and touch me deeply.
I'm reminded of the famous songwriter Rich Mullins, (author of "... Our God... is an Awesome God...") who was killed in a freak highway accident just days away from being received into the Church. In the spectrum between Sincere Seeker and those, like Rich, who are intending entry into the Church, we will likely find Walter. I believe (and I think the Church teaches as much) they are already wearing the Catholic badge and will be treated as such on the other side of the grave. Prayers for these souls are always called for.
I'm also grateful Patrick for the part he played in your entry into apologetics, and I'm also grateful that you eventually adopted the less combative yet deliberate and calm approach that is now your hallmark!
Patrick, I cannot imagine you as a pugnacious apologist. As a matter of fact, I have admired you over the years since I became acquainted with your program on Relevant Radio for your restraint, decorum, and for always remaining calm and respectful, especially when you were faced with heated and hostile callers who failed to show you the same courtesy. Now I have something else to admire and that is your humility in admitting how you at times were a tad "extra" in your approach and how you resolved to do better. I had the pleasure of talking with you on your program in 2024,
( I was the 40-year Jehovah's Witness from South Texas and shared my conversion story on air) and I will always remember the kindness you showed to me during that call. --Emily
Thank you, Emily. I really appreciate your kind and encouraging words. And I’m so glad you called the show to share details about your journey from the Watchtower into the Catholic Church. Welcome home! And thank you again.
Thanks for a great story. I actually watched that debate on the John Ankerberg show. It was my first introduction to Fr Mitch Pacwa. Later a friend and I discussed the debate. She was an evangelical, and of course we came to opposite conclusions about who won.
This is a very good article. Thank you Patrick. Along with Mitch P, and Scott H, and my wife I am the Catholic I am today. “ Go Catholic Answers “
Thank you Patrick for your commentary and contributions over so many years. Your Surprised by Truth books are still in my library. While searching the TV offerings years ago, I came across the Jon Ankerberg show during which Dr. Walter Martin happened to be debating with Father Mitch Pacwa whom I had never heard of. I found Walter Martin to be cordial and knowledgeable, but thought Father Mitch had clearly won the debate. I was so impressed by his command of the scriptures without missing a beat. I subsequently began to watch him on EWTN. I was also glad to learn that he and Walter Martin had become good friends. I sincerely believe that Dr Martin believed that this Catholic priest really knew what he was taking about and was impressed by how well he could defend his Catholic faith.
An excellent piece of Catholic apologetics history. I'm a devout atheist listener with Buddhist leanings. Thank you.
Thank you, Steve! I just read your comment on the air.
Any Apologetics one can listen to these days?
I like you, Patrick Madrid!
What you call 'pugnacious style' can be a feature of an entertaining 'brand'. It seems to me that part of what makes this style 'fun' to which to listen, is something built into humans. The desire, expressed in countless dramas, fictional and actual, for justice. Justice for "the villain". This villain is never us. The villain is evil, and deserves to be punished. Pugnacious radio (and other) "journalism" inflicts this punishment on the villain(s). Jesus reveals there is more than one villain. Satan, the ultimate villain. Most of us are ok with Satan the villain being in Hell. He is not the only villain, and Jesus makes this clear. He reveals that some people will join Satan in Hell. This may be include any of us, as Jesus, and our entire Tradition, affirm. I might be the villain! "Judge not, lest ye be judged"- the sins for which I am happy to see others punished, including by pugnacious apologists, may be sins of which I am also guilty. My own sins may be worse! Jesus tries to inspire us to contrition for our own offenses. Those who go to Hell, may it please God that is few, go there for their own decisions, not those of any other villain. We are glad your style is less theatrically pugnacious. You usually maintain an admirable firmness in the face of hideous errors, and other ignorance. My preference, unmitigated by Jesus, is for the sarcasm I learned 'at my mother's knee'. Let us all pray for wiser ways to confront our own sins, and any villains we may encounter. Keep sarcasm handy, though. It is my intention to keep it in my quiver. May Saints and Holy Angels guide my use of it. Polished Arrow on Substack, Povera Voce on X.
Nice posting, Patrick. My first staff youth ministry role was 1980-1995 at St Callistus, married Donna Aug 15, 1981 and began the joy of 11 kids. I remember Fr Baird, the director of YM for the Diocese of Orange, put up with my insistence we youth leaders need to be prepared for the cults and be trained in understanding the other religions that compete for our teens. I got some good, and some lukewarm reactions from other YMs. The results over time speak for themselves
Like you, I consumed Dr Martin and read his Kingdom book and value your steadfast apologetics training Patrick that you share timelessly.
But one line I remember you've spoken eloquently: "apologetics is not about winning the arguments, but winning souls"
When I was called to appear on a Dennis Prager "afterschool" program, I accepted. It was on masturbation; the panel included two Planned parenthood workers, a young couple and myself, and I think I did an adequate job. Dennis gave me the moniker "preacher."
As I Peter 3:15 puts it, we always need to be ready, aware to give a reason for the hope that lies within. Trust the Holy Spirit will be there with the words, but preparation is important too.
Enjoy the day. Keep GOING in this Eucharistic Renaissance. Keep GROWING with Relevant
Len
I am not surprised that Ankerberg would do something that nefarious. Seventh Day Adventists are often fanatic anti-Catholics and have no problems with duplicity. The Mormons were irked by Martin and attacked him even after his death. I still get combative, but usually only with those who are that way with me. Subtlety can be fun too. A guy lived across from a JW Kingdom Hall and was annoyed by his constant visitors. I told him to put a big statue of Mary on his lawn right where their driveway came out, so they would see her every time they left their service. He loved the idea and got one the next day.
The Bible Answer Man was my daily go to radio program for many years. Also read the Kingdom of the Cults which equipped me as a protestant in conversations I had with visiting JWs.
Stories about non Catholics who are respectful towards Catholicism, especially those who are moving deliberately towards Catholicism, then die suddenly, intrigue me and touch me deeply.
I'm reminded of the famous songwriter Rich Mullins, (author of "... Our God... is an Awesome God...") who was killed in a freak highway accident just days away from being received into the Church. In the spectrum between Sincere Seeker and those, like Rich, who are intending entry into the Church, we will likely find Walter. I believe (and I think the Church teaches as much) they are already wearing the Catholic badge and will be treated as such on the other side of the grave. Prayers for these souls are always called for.
I'm also grateful Patrick for the part he played in your entry into apologetics, and I'm also grateful that you eventually adopted the less combative yet deliberate and calm approach that is now your hallmark!
Thank you, James.
Amen
I still got his book in my library. I found it very useful at the time.