Perfectly said Patrick. This goes along the "golden rule". I am your age and when we were young, we could never talk without my mom pinching our arms at that sweet spot.
My complaint today is with adults carrying on conversations before and after Mass. Where is the Sacred Silence? Where is the respect for others trying to pray?
We try to attend TLM as often as I can... the Mass of the ages is so beautiful and parents are trying their best to pass down the faith.
A few weeks ago I encountered a courageous young father at daily Mass. he had 3 under 4, at a daily Mass. my three are all grown and out of the house but I remember my wife and I taking our three to Sunday Mass. The struggle and the stress we both felt was real. And the shame we felt when they acted up was powerful. I pulled that young father aside after mass and told him how impress I was at his courage and patience. Later that week I was talking to some older friends and they all mentioned that they saw him and were similarly impressed. I’ll never forget him.
We raised ten so this resonates with me. Funny, the rowdiest of the ten was the one that went on to become our only priest. Father Willett is now at Our Lady of Clear Creek Abbey. Like most Benedictine monastaries, the quiet is almost overwhelming for those of us living in "the world". The irony does not escape me that this restless child became this Holy Priest who lives his life in probably the most quiet surroundings you could find.
The main point should be that we are at mass to worship. Worship is made very difficult for parents who bring their children and also made difficult for others in church. Parents who do not hesitate to use baby sitters, seem to be reluctant to do so when they go to worship God . . . Why?
What you said, sounds good but do not address the main question which is: "Why do we go to mass?" We go to worship God. Worship is made VERY difficult for parents of noisy children and also makes it much more difficult for others. Parents think nothing of spending money for baby sitters except when it is time to go and worship God. Weird!
We’ve finally decided that what’s best for us is to split up the family for Mass. I take our 1yo twins to the early Mass and my wife takes the 3yo later. We’ve considered using the nursery that’s offered to us, but are still hanging on - even if by a thread - to having the kids attend Mass every Sunday.
Would be nice if a church offered a “Mass for Kids” that allowed people with children to attend and not feel the need to scram to the back of the church at first sign of rebellion. At this point, our kids know that if they make enough noise, they get to go outside or to the back of the church and see all the other unruly kids running around. It would be nice to be able to hold the line with them.
I agree taking them to the back or the cry room is like a reward because they get to see all the other kids playing with toys and watching shows on phones. At least that was my experience at one church early on. 😅 Now taking them to the back is a last resort and they get a quick stern correction before returning promptly to the pew.
My only child was taken to Mass, daily and Sundays, from the age of 15 days. I held her in my arms. Then, when she was a toddler she had her own book for Mass which occupied her.
But when people are dealing with strong feelings, or tragedies then they're not as accommodating. Larger families are more challenging for parents but what a wonderful reward when we battle on and we all can celebrate truly together when they're slightly older.
Noisy children like to be noticed and shown they're not neglected. But if a child is really fractious perhaps he or she needs something immediately. We're all welcome in God's house, noisy, fractious, complaining or simply grateful for the opportunity to pray with our Mass.
I appreciate this discussion and your experience with it. I am a mother of five, with most of my children being five and under. I hold the rather unique opinion that small children should not be in Mass until they are developmentally able to sit still and quiet throughout just as we would expect them to in any other quiet setting such as a theater. I’m not talking about nursing babies or older children preparing for First Holy Communion, but those years in between where the children have an age-appropriate constant need to move. This varies by child of course; I’ve seen wildly different development timelines in the few children I have. Keeping children out of Mass until closer to the age of reason doesn’t keep the children from Christ, nor does it prevent a family from praying together, since the domestic church should be doing these things together in the home. I’m told time and again to keep at it and that it gets better, but what I see is that the reason it eventually gets better is because the children finally reach an age where they are developmentally able to behave properly in the church, not because the parents handled the children well enough that they finally understand how to behave. There is much more I could say on this topic but do not want to take up much more space. The church allows for missing Mass due to caring for children (stated separately from caring for the sick). I wonder when/how this particular dispensation came to be and what the original intention was. I’ve been unable to find this information myself - Mr. Madrid, maybe you can enlighten me?
Thank you for sharing this, Alex. You’ve clearly thought carefully about how to raise your children in the Faith, and I appreciate the candor with which you describe the challenges of those early years. I agree that some children simply aren’t ready for the same expectations at the same age, and that every family has to make practical judgment calls from week to week.
The only place I’d offer a mild clarification is on the idea that young children generally shouldn’t be at Mass until they can sit quietly like older kids. I believe they should be, from their earliest age. The Church’s constant pastoral approach has always been that children grow into the rhythm of the Mass precisely by being present for it, even when their presence is noisy or distracting. My view is that it is better to "train up a child in the way he should go" early on, rather than waiting for them to attain a certain developmental milestone. In my own experience raising kids, found that it happens gradually and organically through participation, imitation, and their sense of belonging at Mass.
As for the issue about the dispensation: You're right that the Church has recognizes that caring for infants or very young children can sometimes make a mom's attendance at Mass impossible. But I would respectfully propose that this provision is an exception rather than a suggestion to keep small children home instead of at Mass.
You raise good points, and your love for your family comes through clearly. Thank you for reading and commenting on my article!
Well at Our Parish when Parents take turns, and walk towards the back and that's where I sit because I cannot Kneel and I'm also claustrophobic,these Babies do not bother me at all. If a person next to me makes a comment I just say Babies are being Babies 🫶
In our crowded parish (a good thing!) I’ve noticed elderly folks tends to take the back pews and the seats on the aisle. This makes taking little ones out more challenging. I also understand that sometimes this has to do with mobility issues! But sometimes it clearly doesn’t. Just a thought as one more way to be charitable to one another.
Agree that we need to be gracious to older folks and younger families alike.
It is possible to pray when this happens. That the Holy Angels will console the disruptive, their guardians, and anyone who is tempted to rancor by this. On our Communion and Liberation Family Vacations, we bring lots of children. Their parents know what to do, and seat near exits to make it easier. Life is good! Jesus makes it clear, as you write- bring 'em, and take 'em out when it is too much.
My only issue is when a parent sits blissfully staring straight ahead while their child is disruptive. In my opinion, they ought to be quietly training and correcting that child, so they can learn appropriate behavior.
In such situations, I have taken it upon myself to look straight into the eyes of said offender (a 4 y/o, the 3rd of 4 kids) and wordlessly, with facial expressions and hand gestures, admonished her. She swiftly stopped misbehaving.
Since this same disruptive behavior happened week after week, I soon learned to sit in the opposite side of the church from them.
Thank you for this. Your approach captures the spirit we all need in these moments. Praying for the child, the parents, and anyone feeling strained is a good way to keep charity at the center. And the example you mention about families seating near exits shows exactly how practical courtesy and spiritual patience work together. I’m glad you shared it.
One time when a baby was making all kinds of babbling and cooing noises throughout the Mass, at the end, the mother apologized to me. I said, 'that noise is music to my ears!'. She was initially taken aback, but then broke into a big grin.
I mostly agree, however I also wonder if we should be called to be more charitable in some of these cases. It’s really a tightrope as you probably know. As a parent you want to participate in the mass. Kids have meltdowns and in a large family, let’s say dad takes little Johnny into the gathering space because he hit his head on the book holder. Then while dads gone baby Susie gets scared from the bells and is inconsolable, now a young family would have mom and dad out of the pew or the whole family would have to leave and try to come back.
We want to uphold some level of decorum and reverence, but we also don’t want a young family to be discouraged from attending Mass either.
I am a father of 6, with my youngest being 5, so I am on the tail end of this, but at this point I think I’d rather take a stance in favor of the family of 8 or 10 and make sure we do what we can to support them because their witness impacts 6-8 future Catholics. The older couple has already impacted their children and just have themselves to worry about.
Just some thoughts. In the end we are all one big messy and beautiful family in the Church and maybe there is or isn’t a great solution to this given all the variables. I know I change my mind from time to time on this but thought I’d share some additional thoughts
Thanks for these thoughtful reflections. You’re right that large families often juggle situations that would test any parent’s composure, and your examples show why everyone in the pews needs to give each other plenty of grace and patience. I also agree that young families bring tremendous hope and vitality to a parish. We see that every Sunday at ours!
The only place I’d add a small nuance is where you contrast them with older parishioners. In my experience (having raised all those kids and now being older and a grandfather), both groups matter, both deserve patience, and both can feel overwhelmed in different ways. It doesn’t need to be an either-or. Which is really the message of my article. The family with eight kids and the older couple praying quietly in the pew are part of the same household of faith, and each benefits from the other’s charity.
Your “big messy and beautiful family” line is exactly right. That’s the heart of it!
I know this is a long shot Bridget but I wonder if you could suggest to your priest to add a sensory friendly Mass at least once a month or something? There is a church here in NE called St. Columbikille that offers a sensory friendly Mass with low lights and softer music etc.
Thanks for reading and commenting, Bridget. You highlight an important truth that all of us need to remember: We come to Mass to worship God, not to manage our own personal experience expectations. That insight goes a long way toward patience with the inevitable noise and unpredictability of parish life. Your point about those who live with real sensory challenges is also important. That’s an area where many parishes still need better solutions, and I appreciate you raising it.
The only place I’d add a difference of opinion is that the people who struggle with distraction are not always dealing with mere “preferences,” nor is it always as simple as their attending a weekday Mass instead. Many older parishioners already do that, and they still deserve a welcoming place on Sundays just as young families do. Charity should run in both directions, and no one needs to be pushed to the margins.
Perfectly said Patrick. This goes along the "golden rule". I am your age and when we were young, we could never talk without my mom pinching our arms at that sweet spot.
My complaint today is with adults carrying on conversations before and after Mass. Where is the Sacred Silence? Where is the respect for others trying to pray?
We try to attend TLM as often as I can... the Mass of the ages is so beautiful and parents are trying their best to pass down the faith.
God bless.
A few weeks ago I encountered a courageous young father at daily Mass. he had 3 under 4, at a daily Mass. my three are all grown and out of the house but I remember my wife and I taking our three to Sunday Mass. The struggle and the stress we both felt was real. And the shame we felt when they acted up was powerful. I pulled that young father aside after mass and told him how impress I was at his courage and patience. Later that week I was talking to some older friends and they all mentioned that they saw him and were similarly impressed. I’ll never forget him.
If the church ain’t crying it dying
We raised ten so this resonates with me. Funny, the rowdiest of the ten was the one that went on to become our only priest. Father Willett is now at Our Lady of Clear Creek Abbey. Like most Benedictine monastaries, the quiet is almost overwhelming for those of us living in "the world". The irony does not escape me that this restless child became this Holy Priest who lives his life in probably the most quiet surroundings you could find.
I love that your wild child became a priest!
The main point should be that we are at mass to worship. Worship is made very difficult for parents who bring their children and also made difficult for others in church. Parents who do not hesitate to use baby sitters, seem to be reluctant to do so when they go to worship God . . . Why?
What you said, sounds good but do not address the main question which is: "Why do we go to mass?" We go to worship God. Worship is made VERY difficult for parents of noisy children and also makes it much more difficult for others. Parents think nothing of spending money for baby sitters except when it is time to go and worship God. Weird!
We’ve finally decided that what’s best for us is to split up the family for Mass. I take our 1yo twins to the early Mass and my wife takes the 3yo later. We’ve considered using the nursery that’s offered to us, but are still hanging on - even if by a thread - to having the kids attend Mass every Sunday.
Would be nice if a church offered a “Mass for Kids” that allowed people with children to attend and not feel the need to scram to the back of the church at first sign of rebellion. At this point, our kids know that if they make enough noise, they get to go outside or to the back of the church and see all the other unruly kids running around. It would be nice to be able to hold the line with them.
I agree taking them to the back or the cry room is like a reward because they get to see all the other kids playing with toys and watching shows on phones. At least that was my experience at one church early on. 😅 Now taking them to the back is a last resort and they get a quick stern correction before returning promptly to the pew.
My only child was taken to Mass, daily and Sundays, from the age of 15 days. I held her in my arms. Then, when she was a toddler she had her own book for Mass which occupied her.
But when people are dealing with strong feelings, or tragedies then they're not as accommodating. Larger families are more challenging for parents but what a wonderful reward when we battle on and we all can celebrate truly together when they're slightly older.
Noisy children like to be noticed and shown they're not neglected. But if a child is really fractious perhaps he or she needs something immediately. We're all welcome in God's house, noisy, fractious, complaining or simply grateful for the opportunity to pray with our Mass.
I appreciate this discussion and your experience with it. I am a mother of five, with most of my children being five and under. I hold the rather unique opinion that small children should not be in Mass until they are developmentally able to sit still and quiet throughout just as we would expect them to in any other quiet setting such as a theater. I’m not talking about nursing babies or older children preparing for First Holy Communion, but those years in between where the children have an age-appropriate constant need to move. This varies by child of course; I’ve seen wildly different development timelines in the few children I have. Keeping children out of Mass until closer to the age of reason doesn’t keep the children from Christ, nor does it prevent a family from praying together, since the domestic church should be doing these things together in the home. I’m told time and again to keep at it and that it gets better, but what I see is that the reason it eventually gets better is because the children finally reach an age where they are developmentally able to behave properly in the church, not because the parents handled the children well enough that they finally understand how to behave. There is much more I could say on this topic but do not want to take up much more space. The church allows for missing Mass due to caring for children (stated separately from caring for the sick). I wonder when/how this particular dispensation came to be and what the original intention was. I’ve been unable to find this information myself - Mr. Madrid, maybe you can enlighten me?
Thank you for sharing this, Alex. You’ve clearly thought carefully about how to raise your children in the Faith, and I appreciate the candor with which you describe the challenges of those early years. I agree that some children simply aren’t ready for the same expectations at the same age, and that every family has to make practical judgment calls from week to week.
The only place I’d offer a mild clarification is on the idea that young children generally shouldn’t be at Mass until they can sit quietly like older kids. I believe they should be, from their earliest age. The Church’s constant pastoral approach has always been that children grow into the rhythm of the Mass precisely by being present for it, even when their presence is noisy or distracting. My view is that it is better to "train up a child in the way he should go" early on, rather than waiting for them to attain a certain developmental milestone. In my own experience raising kids, found that it happens gradually and organically through participation, imitation, and their sense of belonging at Mass.
As for the issue about the dispensation: You're right that the Church has recognizes that caring for infants or very young children can sometimes make a mom's attendance at Mass impossible. But I would respectfully propose that this provision is an exception rather than a suggestion to keep small children home instead of at Mass.
You raise good points, and your love for your family comes through clearly. Thank you for reading and commenting on my article!
Well at Our Parish when Parents take turns, and walk towards the back and that's where I sit because I cannot Kneel and I'm also claustrophobic,these Babies do not bother me at all. If a person next to me makes a comment I just say Babies are being Babies 🫶
In our crowded parish (a good thing!) I’ve noticed elderly folks tends to take the back pews and the seats on the aisle. This makes taking little ones out more challenging. I also understand that sometimes this has to do with mobility issues! But sometimes it clearly doesn’t. Just a thought as one more way to be charitable to one another.
Agree that we need to be gracious to older folks and younger families alike.
It is possible to pray when this happens. That the Holy Angels will console the disruptive, their guardians, and anyone who is tempted to rancor by this. On our Communion and Liberation Family Vacations, we bring lots of children. Their parents know what to do, and seat near exits to make it easier. Life is good! Jesus makes it clear, as you write- bring 'em, and take 'em out when it is too much.
My only issue is when a parent sits blissfully staring straight ahead while their child is disruptive. In my opinion, they ought to be quietly training and correcting that child, so they can learn appropriate behavior.
In such situations, I have taken it upon myself to look straight into the eyes of said offender (a 4 y/o, the 3rd of 4 kids) and wordlessly, with facial expressions and hand gestures, admonished her. She swiftly stopped misbehaving.
Since this same disruptive behavior happened week after week, I soon learned to sit in the opposite side of the church from them.
Thank you for this. Your approach captures the spirit we all need in these moments. Praying for the child, the parents, and anyone feeling strained is a good way to keep charity at the center. And the example you mention about families seating near exits shows exactly how practical courtesy and spiritual patience work together. I’m glad you shared it.
One time when a baby was making all kinds of babbling and cooing noises throughout the Mass, at the end, the mother apologized to me. I said, 'that noise is music to my ears!'. She was initially taken aback, but then broke into a big grin.
Beautiful :)
I mostly agree, however I also wonder if we should be called to be more charitable in some of these cases. It’s really a tightrope as you probably know. As a parent you want to participate in the mass. Kids have meltdowns and in a large family, let’s say dad takes little Johnny into the gathering space because he hit his head on the book holder. Then while dads gone baby Susie gets scared from the bells and is inconsolable, now a young family would have mom and dad out of the pew or the whole family would have to leave and try to come back.
We want to uphold some level of decorum and reverence, but we also don’t want a young family to be discouraged from attending Mass either.
I am a father of 6, with my youngest being 5, so I am on the tail end of this, but at this point I think I’d rather take a stance in favor of the family of 8 or 10 and make sure we do what we can to support them because their witness impacts 6-8 future Catholics. The older couple has already impacted their children and just have themselves to worry about.
Just some thoughts. In the end we are all one big messy and beautiful family in the Church and maybe there is or isn’t a great solution to this given all the variables. I know I change my mind from time to time on this but thought I’d share some additional thoughts
Thanks for these thoughtful reflections. You’re right that large families often juggle situations that would test any parent’s composure, and your examples show why everyone in the pews needs to give each other plenty of grace and patience. I also agree that young families bring tremendous hope and vitality to a parish. We see that every Sunday at ours!
The only place I’d add a small nuance is where you contrast them with older parishioners. In my experience (having raised all those kids and now being older and a grandfather), both groups matter, both deserve patience, and both can feel overwhelmed in different ways. It doesn’t need to be an either-or. Which is really the message of my article. The family with eight kids and the older couple praying quietly in the pew are part of the same household of faith, and each benefits from the other’s charity.
Your “big messy and beautiful family” line is exactly right. That’s the heart of it!
I know this is a long shot Bridget but I wonder if you could suggest to your priest to add a sensory friendly Mass at least once a month or something? There is a church here in NE called St. Columbikille that offers a sensory friendly Mass with low lights and softer music etc.
I'm sorry to hear that Bridget. It does sound very concerning/frustrating.
Thanks for reading and commenting, Bridget. You highlight an important truth that all of us need to remember: We come to Mass to worship God, not to manage our own personal experience expectations. That insight goes a long way toward patience with the inevitable noise and unpredictability of parish life. Your point about those who live with real sensory challenges is also important. That’s an area where many parishes still need better solutions, and I appreciate you raising it.
The only place I’d add a difference of opinion is that the people who struggle with distraction are not always dealing with mere “preferences,” nor is it always as simple as their attending a weekday Mass instead. Many older parishioners already do that, and they still deserve a welcoming place on Sundays just as young families do. Charity should run in both directions, and no one needs to be pushed to the margins.