Unfortunately, I find that this "bad advice" phenomenon is quite common among priests. Unless I'm in confession with one of a handful of priests I personally know, I find that the advice given is very rarely good pastoral advice. Thankfully, I've studied the Church's moral teachings in depth at a very good Catholic graduate school, so I can smell the bs, but I feel bad for my fellow Catholics who get some very bad advice in the confessional and don't know what to do with it.
Could you give some references from the Church, the Church Fathers, and Doctors about morally sound sexual practice within the Sacrament of Marriage as a guide for further study and morally sound practice for those in need. This would be helpful.
Hi Patrick, thank you for your thoughtful article and reminder of moral truths. On a parallel topic regarding morality, I’ve been slowly coming to terms with being somewhere on the sexuality spectrum as a single man. I have found social media to be filled with gay Catholic men, including priests, who have used the primacy of conscience to condone a variety of same sex behaviors, similar to the birth control argument. I was shattered for a time, tempted to just throw out the baby with the bath water, a true crisis of faith.
I feel grateful to have reasonable formation throughout my years. It really led me to reflect inward and realize the Church belongs to Jesus, not these people.
Pastoral malpractice is a perfect phrase for it all. To a large degree I feel like I am a victim of this pastoral malpractice. “It is better for a millstone…” feels right as I reflect back on the temptations spoon fed to me by clergy and influencers. I feel anger toward these men, as I’m sure many of these couples and individuals from your article feel. I hope to be able to pray for them more going forward, maybe God can make sense of it.
Would it be fair to ask a priest at the outset if he is homosex, given the odds in this day and age? If yes, I would then think twice before choosing to confess to someone who obviously was incapable of pastoring marriage.
That would probably eliminate most of the problem.
You have hit upon a crux of the problem: "The Church cannot reverse moral teaching that belongs to the deposit of faith. She is indefectible in her dogmatic teaching and cannot declare today that what was intrinsically evil yesterday has somehow become morally good."
When one takes the Profession of Faith one avers that “I believe all that the Church teaches”. Not what a prelate teaches, no matter how high he may be or even the Pope. The Catholic Faith is divine and immutable, and the motto of the Church has always been “semper idem” (always the same); and it is written down – as the Church does not make up the Faith as it goes along-, so poor catechesis is not an excuse as we are all responsible for saving our souls, and can readily find the Faith written down if we bother to search.
Of course priests are human. That’s beside the point. Being human doesn’t excuse misusing moral authority in the confessional or contradicting Church teaching, which the Church herself defines as scandal, not mere human weakness.
Guess I was blessed. Jesus gives me faith in Him, not the Priest. The Catholics I met, when, as an adult, I began Faithful Sacramental practice, were what we call Traditionalists. Neither they, nor I, had any illusions that "Father" could override Jesus, or the Revelations upon which, through the Church- all if us, not only the Clergy-He insists. Back in time, circa 1968, my mom told me about what you mention. She said word was out, among women wanting to get artificial contraception permission. They could go to a particular Priest, and he would approve. I don't know what mom thought, but the people I knew were aware such a Priest did not have that authority. Anyone who chose to believe him was, in my opinion, willfully deluded. O Lord, deliver us from wolves in shepherds clothing. Let neither them, nor ourselves, be led astray, or lead others astray.
Maybe you were so fortunate, but many Catholics were not. Trusting a priest in the sacrament of confession is not “willful delusion”; it is the ordinary and reasonable expectation of the faithful, especially during a time of widespread theological dissent when many priests were publicly assuring people that Church teaching was about to change. Besides, you’re missing the point. It’s not about faith in priests instead of Christ, it’s about the misuse of moral authority by some priests, which the Church herself defines as scandal, and the real harm done to lay Catholics who relied on that authority in good faith.
I cried when I Read this article 😭 My Comment/ True Story is too long and Painful, I've never been the Same since My Miscarriage 1983) Thank You Patrick 🥹🙏
In 1986, when my wife and I went through Pre-Cana, we received no guidance in this regard. The total, in fact, was this: follow your conscience as to family size & timing; follow your conscience as far as birth control went; there’s something called NFP, if you’re interested, call the diocese. I called and was told that an older couple, not part of the diocesan office, would call me. They did and later sent me a how-to packet. Quite the pathetic response from our pastoral leadership.
What about opinions of mental and emotional development of children? Would a desire for the elder child to be more mentally and emotionally grounded (maybe between 2-3 yrs) be a “serious reason” to space with NFP? I wish there was a little more of a definition between “convenience ” or “preference,” and “serious” or “just” reasons.
It is rather difficult for our first to behave well toward our second child, and they are 21 months apart. A little more spacing (by a few months) before the next one might in theory allow them to bond better and prepare the second one emotionally for the third a little better. But is that too close to being a “preference”?
Unfortunately, I find that this "bad advice" phenomenon is quite common among priests. Unless I'm in confession with one of a handful of priests I personally know, I find that the advice given is very rarely good pastoral advice. Thankfully, I've studied the Church's moral teachings in depth at a very good Catholic graduate school, so I can smell the bs, but I feel bad for my fellow Catholics who get some very bad advice in the confessional and don't know what to do with it.
Could you give some references from the Church, the Church Fathers, and Doctors about morally sound sexual practice within the Sacrament of Marriage as a guide for further study and morally sound practice for those in need. This would be helpful.
Thank you for an excellent article.
Thank you. Understood
Hi, Antonia. Please don't post links to outside organizations in the comments. I don't permit that. Thank you for understanding.
My advice to catholics is to find someone other than a priest to seek moral clarity.
Hi Patrick, thank you for your thoughtful article and reminder of moral truths. On a parallel topic regarding morality, I’ve been slowly coming to terms with being somewhere on the sexuality spectrum as a single man. I have found social media to be filled with gay Catholic men, including priests, who have used the primacy of conscience to condone a variety of same sex behaviors, similar to the birth control argument. I was shattered for a time, tempted to just throw out the baby with the bath water, a true crisis of faith.
I feel grateful to have reasonable formation throughout my years. It really led me to reflect inward and realize the Church belongs to Jesus, not these people.
Pastoral malpractice is a perfect phrase for it all. To a large degree I feel like I am a victim of this pastoral malpractice. “It is better for a millstone…” feels right as I reflect back on the temptations spoon fed to me by clergy and influencers. I feel anger toward these men, as I’m sure many of these couples and individuals from your article feel. I hope to be able to pray for them more going forward, maybe God can make sense of it.
Would it be fair to ask a priest at the outset if he is homosex, given the odds in this day and age? If yes, I would then think twice before choosing to confess to someone who obviously was incapable of pastoring marriage.
That would probably eliminate most of the problem.
You have hit upon a crux of the problem: "The Church cannot reverse moral teaching that belongs to the deposit of faith. She is indefectible in her dogmatic teaching and cannot declare today that what was intrinsically evil yesterday has somehow become morally good."
When one takes the Profession of Faith one avers that “I believe all that the Church teaches”. Not what a prelate teaches, no matter how high he may be or even the Pope. The Catholic Faith is divine and immutable, and the motto of the Church has always been “semper idem” (always the same); and it is written down – as the Church does not make up the Faith as it goes along-, so poor catechesis is not an excuse as we are all responsible for saving our souls, and can readily find the Faith written down if we bother to search.
Catholic priests are human, just like you and me.
Of course priests are human. That’s beside the point. Being human doesn’t excuse misusing moral authority in the confessional or contradicting Church teaching, which the Church herself defines as scandal, not mere human weakness.
Guess I was blessed. Jesus gives me faith in Him, not the Priest. The Catholics I met, when, as an adult, I began Faithful Sacramental practice, were what we call Traditionalists. Neither they, nor I, had any illusions that "Father" could override Jesus, or the Revelations upon which, through the Church- all if us, not only the Clergy-He insists. Back in time, circa 1968, my mom told me about what you mention. She said word was out, among women wanting to get artificial contraception permission. They could go to a particular Priest, and he would approve. I don't know what mom thought, but the people I knew were aware such a Priest did not have that authority. Anyone who chose to believe him was, in my opinion, willfully deluded. O Lord, deliver us from wolves in shepherds clothing. Let neither them, nor ourselves, be led astray, or lead others astray.
Maybe you were so fortunate, but many Catholics were not. Trusting a priest in the sacrament of confession is not “willful delusion”; it is the ordinary and reasonable expectation of the faithful, especially during a time of widespread theological dissent when many priests were publicly assuring people that Church teaching was about to change. Besides, you’re missing the point. It’s not about faith in priests instead of Christ, it’s about the misuse of moral authority by some priests, which the Church herself defines as scandal, and the real harm done to lay Catholics who relied on that authority in good faith.
I cried when I Read this article 😭 My Comment/ True Story is too long and Painful, I've never been the Same since My Miscarriage 1983) Thank You Patrick 🥹🙏
God bless you, Toni.
In 1986, when my wife and I went through Pre-Cana, we received no guidance in this regard. The total, in fact, was this: follow your conscience as to family size & timing; follow your conscience as far as birth control went; there’s something called NFP, if you’re interested, call the diocese. I called and was told that an older couple, not part of the diocesan office, would call me. They did and later sent me a how-to packet. Quite the pathetic response from our pastoral leadership.
What about opinions of mental and emotional development of children? Would a desire for the elder child to be more mentally and emotionally grounded (maybe between 2-3 yrs) be a “serious reason” to space with NFP? I wish there was a little more of a definition between “convenience ” or “preference,” and “serious” or “just” reasons.
It is rather difficult for our first to behave well toward our second child, and they are 21 months apart. A little more spacing (by a few months) before the next one might in theory allow them to bond better and prepare the second one emotionally for the third a little better. But is that too close to being a “preference”?
Maybe ask a priest from the SSPX or FSSP?
Thanks, Bob. Check out my article on NFP and how it is not, as some wrongly claim, contraceptive: https://patrickmadrid.substack.com/p/why-natural-family-planning-is-not